[Users] CM 3.16 and Selection when entering a folder

Olivier Brunel jjk at jjacky.com
Wed Dec 20 18:05:35 CET 2017

On Wed, 20 Dec 2017 09:17:47 +0000
Paul <claws at thewildbeast.co.uk> wrote:

> Olivier,
> Thank you for your series of cocksure, bantam-strutting rants which
> seem to have been instigated by a change in GIT which was only a few
> hours old, and, as such, are a work in progress.

I am sorry you read my messages that way, but it is neither how I
wrote/intended it, nor how I read it now. It might be because English
isn't my mother tongue, but I can assure you it wasn't meant as rants,
angry, or anything of the sort of me letting off steam. Apologies
(to you and everyone else reading) if it comes off that way.

Please also note it wasn't instigated by a change in git, I was
merely making on comment on such change, which you had previously
mentionned in the thread, that is all.

As for my interest in this issue, much like my writing of the patch,
that actually goes back months.

> You are always on our IRC channel and are a subscriber to the
> developers' mailing list but you chose the users' list as the place to
> let off steam.
> Yes, it was clear and known before you decided to state it that these
> changes make most sense for those users sorting by date. For those
> who sort by date (possibly most users) the current state is an
> improvement. This series of changes, in fact, were started after
> discussions with users who pointed out the problems with the previous
> behaviour.

Right, and I'm one of the other users who've had issue with those
changes, and tried to explain that while sorting by date, we don't
want this special behavior, we'd still like first to mean first, and
use go next to go the next message... yes, even when sorting desc.

All I was asking, by contributing a patch, is for an option to opt out
of this sort order awareness.

> Since sorting is a folder-specific setting, your patch doesn't cut it
> either. What is needed, I think, is something a bit smarter which is
> aware of the current folder's sort criteria and then is able to do
> the 'right thing' based on that.

Ok, but could you explain why you feel the patch doesn't cut it.
Because, IMHO, it does. That is, I feel whether one does want this "sort
order awareness" feature - for all his folders (hence your
implementation of it), or one doesn't, for none of his folders (hence
a global option).

And as one who doesn't want this feature, and who has been using the
patch to turn it off for some time now, I can say that it works exactly
as I'd like (all the time for all my folders).

And based on comments by others who have had similar issues, it also
seems to be a global switch situation -- see Slavko who said elsewhere
in this very thread:

>For now i solved it with Select the Last message -- I can live
>with it for some time.

That obviously (to me) is more of a workaround that a real/proper
solution, but it certainly convey that what he's after works indeed in a
global option way -- or do you disagree with that?

I'm not sure more is needed; Yes, a single global option is a simple
on/off switch, for all folders in all mailboxes, but sometimes simple
is enough :)

(And if some people do want for more complicated behavior, let them talk
first maybe... as I haven't heard such requests, though I may have
missed them ofc.)

> I welcome you to share your ideas, but not in your blunt instrument
> approach because that too easily comes across as self-righteous
> anger. On another thread on this list someone said they were sad to
> pereive a certain attitude, but yours can be perceived in much the
> same way.

I know I am blunt and can come off arrogant, and I'm no native speaker
and as such may not perceive things as you (and others native speakers)
do, but I'm pretty sure I wasn't hateful nor did I ever insulted anyone,
neither in this thread or another one.


> To reiterate, I am not disagreeing with everything you said, but I am
> not agreeing with it all either.
> regards
> Paul
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