[Users] How to place mailboxes in hidden folder

[Albert ARIBAUD]

Hi Paul,

Le Tue, 29 Mar 2016 09:40:27 +0100
Paul <claws at thewildbeast.co.uk> a écrit:

> On Tue, 29 Mar 2016 10:29:19 +0200
> Albert ARIBAUD <albert.aribaud at free.fr> wrote: 
> 
> > I see one good reason for suggesting that configuration and mail
> > folders be best kept separate, and that reason is that Claws Mail by
> > default does separate them (both on Linux and on Windows);
> 
> OTOH, the IMAP mail cache is within ~/.claws-mail/ as are feeds used
> with the RSSyl plugin. 

Indeed -- and actually, when I found that out it surprised me, because
I found it inconsistent that all messages be put in a single location,
as for instance a system admin might want to put the mostly-read-only
config directory on one type of storage and the frequently-read-write-
erase message store(s) on another type of storage, and cached Usenet
messages seem more related to mails messages than to config files in
that respect.

> > therefore, CM users know that CM does work -- or at least intends
> > to work -- with separate folders for config and mail files; OTOH,
> > users do not know for sure that CM will work with mail and config
> > files all together in a single folder (a careful review of the CM
> > code might conclude that it indeed is fine to use a single folder,
> > but this review is beyond what can be expected from CM /users/ IMO).
> 
> You are forgetting that we are here on the users' mailing list and
> that members of the development team are responding. Therefore there
> is no need to make any assumptions or to inspect the code.

I am not forgetting it; but not all CM users read this list, and I
strongly suspect that many who arrive on this list do not read past
archives and therefore are not exposed to the information that
developers and regulars of the list may have posted (I'm pretty sure
even regulars do not read every single mail on the list). So just
because there are people who can tell CM users, or even have told some
CM users, that putting mail and config file in a single directory
works, does not mean that everyone here knows this too.

> > I would go as far as saying that the fact that CM insists on
> > separating config and mail directories (there is no option given to
> > users for choosing between separate directories or single
> > directory) appears to to users as an indication that those
> > directories should be separated (again, I stress the "appears to
> > users" part).
> 
> CM does not insist on that at all.

Correct, "insisting" is something of an exaggeration because CM does not
display any message to the effect that no, it won't put mail and config
files together in a single directory.

Less exaggerating would be "Claws Mail won't go out of its way to let
you know that you can store all of your config and mail files in a
single location".

Yes, there is a choice of location when creating a mailbox, even the
first one, and yes there is a bubble help saying one can also enter an
absolute path, but that does not mean this path can be that of the
configuration -- a path which, actually, is not displayed to the user
at any time, so a casual user might not even know where to point his
mailbox to in order to store that mailbox in the configuration
directory.

And granted, there is nothing in the doc that says "you cannot put mail
and config in the same dir", so *technically* a user could infer that
(s)he can... Except (s)he can also infer "there is no indication
therefore I cannot tell whether it works, so maybe it does not work".
In my experience, what goes without saying deserves being said
explicitly when communicating between devs and users (and both
ways; how many times have we devs had to deal with the dreaded "it does
not work" bug description?)

That said, if indeed CM supports putting mail and config in a single
directory, then one way to make sure users know this is to display a
short message to that effect in the "Saving mail on disk" (for
install) and "Add mailbox" (any time after install) dialogs under
the "Mailbox name" field. That message read "If you want your mail
directory to be stored alongside your Claws mail configuration in a
single directory, enter '/home/albert/.claws-mail/Mail' in the field
above" (that path is for my case; obviously the suggested location
would have to be adapted to the OS and user so that a simple copy-paste
would suffice). Considering these dialogs have a single field, adding
some text won't hurt usability.

I know, patches welcome... I volunteer to at least provide the French
translation. :)

> > I light of this, I personally consider that Chris (or any user, and
> > I count myself in that group even though I did take moe than a
> > passing look at CM's code) has sufficient reason for saying "it
> > might be wise not to use the same location for mail and config" --
> > even though that reason was implicit.
> 
> what? Even after my original response, where I say you can use a full
> path? I think not.

Yes, even after your original response, first because "why" isn't much
of an informative response, and second and more seriously, because
whether the user *can* use a full path does not mean (s)he *knows*
(s)he can at the moment (s)he wants to.

Typically, on first run, being asked for a Mailbox *name* with an
example which does not look like a directory path does not ensure 100%
that the user will realize (s)he's being asked for a *path* -- only the
bubble shows that, whereas labelling the field "Mailbox folder" rather
than "Mailbox name" and showing a full path by default rather than a
relative one would ensure all users know about that (and maybe later
remember where their mail folder is even without going through Claws
Mail).

> Anyway, why are you even trying to assume what
> someone else meant?

Respectfully, I did not assume what Chris /thought/. I asserted that
Chris /had reason/ to /write/ what he wrote -- whether he had thought
out that reason or not, I cannot tell and -- I believe -- did not
assume to tell.

> with regards
> 
> Paul

Amicalement,
-- 
Albert.