[Users] OS changes and BSD, was Claws Mail 3.10.1 for Debian

[ghaverla]

[ Claws wants PGP key access to respond to Colin's note via list, so
 this note references the wrong message. ]

On Mon, 16 Jun 2014 23:16:59 +0200
Colin Leroy <colin at colino.net> wrote:

> On 16 June 2014 at 17h05, Steve Litt wrote:
> 
> Hi, 
> 
> > So bottom line, does or will Claws-Mail require systemd, or doesn't
> > it? I promise I'll shut up if it doesn't and won't.
> 
> It doesn't at all.

I assumed something, and became an "ass".  Which is common with
assumptions.  Claws makes use of some Gnome (gtk) functionality, and
after yesterday (day before?) update, I see that almost all of claws is
being held back.

Claws depends on Gnome in part, and Gnome wants systemd (for whatever
reason). At some point, it will get sucked in deliberately (another
assumption on my part). But for those of us running unstable (or even
testing), packaging mistakes happen.  Someone makes a mistake in
repackaging something, and us users see systemd sucked in through
dependencies. Most people just blindly do apt-get upgrade (or
dist-upgrade, or safe-upgrade in aptitude), not pick and choose from
the list of packages to be updated (which is what I normally do).

If the mistake is on some package that I seldom use, I won't update it
(and perhaps at some point the wrong dependency gets corrected and the
systemd suckin doesn't happen any more).  But, what happens if the
mistake is on something that should be updated due to security concerns?

Sorry, I am not a newbie.  I've run UNIX on a M68000 board sitting in a
PC/XT, HP-UX, Apple Lisa, that UNIX shell on VMS (Eunice?) and the UNIX
like QNX.  I own a HP Integral which originally had Sys3 in ROM, later
upgraded to Sys V in ROM.

I own (and read) the UNIX Programming Environment and Software Tools.
I like and appreciate the UNIX environment.  I chose Linux because it
was following a UNIX philosophy.

====

Running the list of claws-mail-* packages

apt-get install claws-mail claws-mail-acpi-notifier
claws-mail-address-keeper claws-mail-archiver-plugin
claws-mail-attach-remover claws-mail-attach-warner
claws-mail-bogofilter claws-mail-bsfilter-plugin
claws-mail-clamd-plugin claws-mail-extra-plugins
claws-mail-fancy-plugin claws-mail-feeds-reader
claws-mail-fetchinfo-plugin claws-mail-gdata-plugin claws-mail-i18n
claws-mail-mailmbox-plugin claws-mail-multi-notifier
claws-mail-newmail-plugin claws-mail-pdf-viewer claws-mail-perl-filter
claws-mail-pgpinline claws-mail-pgpmime claws-mail-python-plugin
claws-mail-smime-plugin claws-mail-spam-report claws-mail-spamassassin
claws-mail-tnef-parser claws-mail-tools claws-mail-vcalendar-plugin
claws-mail-doc claws-mail-plugins clawsker Reading package lists...
Building dependency tree... Reading state information... 
The following extra packages will be installed: claws-mail-libravatar
dirmngr gpgsm libetpan17 scdaemon Suggested packages: gedit kwrite
mousepad nedit xosd-bin lcdproc The following NEW packages will be
installed: claws-mail-libravatar dirmngr gpgsm libetpan17 scdaemon The
following packages will be upgraded: claws-mail claws-mail-acpi-notifier
claws-mail-address-keeper claws-mail-archiver-plugin
claws-mail-attach-remover claws-mail-attach-warner
claws-mail-bogofilter claws-mail-bsfilter-plugin
claws-mail-clamd-plugin claws-mail-doc claws-mail-extra-plugins
claws-mail-fancy-plugin claws-mail-feeds-reader
claws-mail-fetchinfo-plugin claws-mail-gdata-plugin claws-mail-i18n
claws-mail-mailmbox-plugin claws-mail-multi-notifier
claws-mail-newmail-plugin claws-mail-pdf-viewer claws-mail-perl-filter
claws-mail-pgpinline claws-mail-pgpmime claws-mail-plugins
claws-mail-python-plugin claws-mail-smime-plugin claws-mail-spam-report
claws-mail-spamassassin claws-mail-tnef-parser claws-mail-tools
claws-mail-vcalendar-plugin clawsker 32 upgraded, 5 newly installed, 0
to remove and 354 not upgraded. Need to get 8,834 kB of archives. After
this operation, 4,314 kB of additional disk space will be used. Do you
want to continue? [Y/n]

=====

I need to invoke at least 2 packages, I know xfce4-session is guilty
here:

apt-get install xfce4-session apache2-doc
Reading package lists...
Building dependency tree...
Reading state information...
The following extra packages will be installed:
  libee0 libestr0 liblogging-stdlog0 liblognorm0 libpam-systemd
  libsystemd-journal0 libsystemd-login0 rsyslog systemd systemd-sysv
Suggested packages:
  rsyslog-mysql rsyslog-pgsql rsyslog-mongodb rsyslog-doc rsyslog-gnutls
  rsyslog-gssapi rsyslog-relp systemd-ui fortunes-mod
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  klogd sysklogd sysvinit-core
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  libee0 libestr0 liblogging-stdlog0 liblognorm0 libpam-systemd rsyslog
  systemd systemd-sysv
The following packages will be upgraded:
  apache2-doc libsystemd-journal0 libsystemd-login0 xfce4-session
4 upgraded, 8 newly installed, 3 to remove and 381 not upgraded.
Need to get 5,346 kB of archives.
After this operation, 6,807 kB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] Abort.

====

libgtk-3-0 wants systemd

apt-get install libgtk-3-0 apache2-doc
Reading package lists...
Building dependency tree...
Reading state information...
The following extra packages will be installed:
  colord colord-data libcolord2 libcolorhug2 libee0 libestr0 libgail-3-0
  liblogging-stdlog0 liblognorm0 libpam-systemd libsystemd-journal0
  libsystemd-login0 policykit-1 rsyslog systemd systemd-sysv
Suggested packages:
  rsyslog-mysql rsyslog-pgsql rsyslog-mongodb rsyslog-doc rsyslog-gnutls
  rsyslog-gssapi rsyslog-relp systemd-ui
The following packages will be REMOVED:
  klogd sysklogd sysvinit-core
The following NEW packages will be installed:
  colord colord-data libcolord2 libcolorhug2 libee0 libestr0
  liblogging-stdlog0 liblognorm0 libpam-systemd policykit-1 rsyslog
systemd
  systemd-sysv
The following packages will be upgraded:
  apache2-doc libgail-3-0 libgtk-3-0 libsystemd-journal0
libsystemd-login0
5 upgraded, 13 newly installed, 3 to remove and 380 not upgraded.
Need to get 8,658 kB of archives.
After this operation, 11.4 MB of additional disk space will be used.
Do you want to continue? [Y/n] Abort.

===

Claws currently only depends on libgtk2.0, but there are a bunch of
Gnome related dependencies.  Some maintainer uploads a new package
(into unstable) which inadvertently includes a dependency which drags in
systemd by mistake, and now how many people have sucked in systemd
without needing (or meaning) to.

Gord