[Users] [Bulk] Re: Claws config needs much better documentation

[Michael Gmelin]

On Tue, 31 Jul 2012 05:40:09 +0530
Sitaram Chamarty <sitaramc at gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 31, 2012 at 4:03 AM, Michael Gmelin <freebsd at grem.de>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 18:16:36 -0400
> > Steve Litt <slitt at troubleshooters.com> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 23:39:08 +0200, Michael Gmelin said:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, 30 Jul 2012 17:08:56 -0400
> >> > Steve Litt <slitt at troubleshooters.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> > > Fair enough, but when a part of the program departs from the
> >> > > behavior norms of user software, for gosh sakes, DOCUMENT IT,
> >> > > and document it prominently.
> >> >
> >> > Well, Claws deletes the currently selected message - which is
> >> > standard behavior for UI applications. Moving the cursor keys
> >> > does not open a mail, but changes the selection
> >>
> >> That behavior is configurable. The surprising part is, if you
> >> configure it to not pull the body on changing the message, instead
> >> of blanking out the body of the previous message, it keeps the
> >> body of the previous message.
> >>
> >> >  - which is standard behavior for many
> >> > file managers and other programs where changing the selection
> >> > does not open a file. It might be unusual for a mail client -
> >> > but then again, clicking an email actual opens it, just moving
> >> > the selection with the cursor keys doesn't. I don't quite
> >> > understand how somebody could just not realize this immediately
> >> > - I mean you are using the cursor keys and realize that the
> >> > selection changes, but the mail shown doesn't. It's very obvious
> >> > and I doubt that anybody who is not getting this will actually
> >> > read the documentation before stumbling over this (who is
> >> > reading documentation software before using a program these days
> >> > anyway
> >> > - if ever, unless they hit a problem which would be too late in
> >> > this case).
> >>
> >> As someone who accidentally deleted because of this, let me explain
> >> how it happened. First, I get 500 nonspam messages a day, so I move
> >> fast. My mental algorithm for deleting a message is that if I see
> >> anything in either the body or the subject indicating I'm not
> >> interested, I just press d. Also, keep in mind my desktop Claws is
> >> configured to pull the body upon highlighting the current message.
> >> So I deleted a piece of spam after reading both the subject and the
> >> body. The highlight moved to the next message, but I was still
> >> looking at the body, and saw it waas the same. A quick look at the
> >> subject showed it and the sender different, and I thought "Oh, one
> >> of those virus-generated spams that changes its subject every
> >> time", and pressed d again. After four of these I was thinking
> >> it's a pretty prolific virus. After five, I realized I had skipped
> >> a step somewhere, went back, undeleted the messages, and
> >> discovered the bodies changed when I pressed Enter or clicked the
> >> message.
> >>
> >> >
> >> > That said, I have a very simple suggestion that might solve this
> >> > and increase usability at the same time - it definitely would
> >> > get the attention of new users so that they understand that
> >> > something's different:
> >> >
> >> > Change the message list, so that the mail currently shown in the
> >> > message pane is marked as well as the currently selected mail.
> >> > Keep the standard selection color in case both refer to the same
> >> > mail (selected mail is also the one shown). When moving the
> >> > selection using the cursor keys, keep an outline around the
> >> > currently shown email and use a different color for the
> >> > selection bar. If you hit enter, the previously shown email gets
> >> > deselected, and the selected entry uses the normal selection bar
> >> > again (I hope you get the idea).
> >>
> >> If it were me, the only change I'd make to the "lazy body download"
> >> method would be that, if the highlighted message's body hasn't been
> >> downloaded yet, show a blank body, not the body of the previous and
> >> completely unrelated message.
> >
> > Hm, but this is part of what makes this feature useful to me. I can
> > skim through the message list without losing the one open. I can
> > also delete and move other messages without losing what's open. All
> > very useful to me. Workflows can be a very personal thing :)
> 
> Sure, but the *default* setting is what we're arguing about.  For you,
> it's just one setting away.

In general to me it's still more of a philosophical question - do you
want to make the software behave like other mail clients do by
default (remember, most users don't even change defaults or assume if
it's default, it's the preferred option to use) - or do you want to
make it behave like claws and expose users to the different features
directly, so that they understand: Wow, that actually is something new
and exciting.

I think a Wiki/FAQ section on how claws differs from other mail
programs might be beneficial of course and is something normal users
could provide.

Since I'm just a user of claws I think there's nothing more I can
contribute to the discussion at this point.

Thanks,
Michael

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-- 
Michael Gmelin